TFN Talks with Curtis Talwst Santiago
TFN Talks sat down with Curtis Talwst Santiago, a Trinidadian-Canadian mixed media artist whose Infinity Series - intricate dioramas within reclaimed jewelry boxes representing catastrophic events with references to popular culture and art history, have garnered worldwide acclaim from audiences and the contemporary art world. I was honored to share in glimpses of Santiago’s extraordinary life, work and passion from the man himself.
Curtis, where were you born and how has your early childhood influenced the path of your creative flow as an artist?
I was born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. My early childhood most definitely forged my creative path. I have two brothers, nine and ten years older than I, who had diverse interests. The eldest Anthony is an actor whose interests were opera, theater, visual arts and Prince! Ant would take me to his rehearsals to observe and sit with me to draw and show me artists like Basquiat & Rembrandt. Frank is an athlete slash wannabee singer with a terrible voice but incredible heart and confidence. His interests that were of influence to me were in fashion, hip hop, R&B pop music. Frank was my first performance coach. He would make me stand in front of the bathroom mirror with a pretend microphone and demand that I performed the songs that we’re playing on the radio as if I was in front of a real crowd. We would do this for hours until he felt I had given it my all.
When I first met you, you were one of the most celebrated indie music acts on the scene in Toronto. First Curtis Santiago, then TALWST. Is it true that you were offered to work on a project that later became The Weeknd? What has your journey in music been like and how if in any way has it contributed to your art?
Toronto’s scene was bubbling. I was recording Alien Tentacle Sex & Abel was recording House of Balloons. We were often in the same studios, with some of the same producers splitting the days and nights. We knew many of the same people, and some beats were floated to both of us, so the story tends to get woven together. No one could have done to the music and genre what the XO family did. I wasn’t supposed to be anyone but me.
How would you describe your personal style and how has it evolved throughout the years?
At the moment, I call it Tech Zaddy. Tech fabrics that are versatile and can handle elements, and do not have to comprise style. Items that you buy once or twice in a lifetime, and they last because of the quality. I want them to look like I'm from the imagined future. I’ve always viewed my art/fashion as a time collapse, drawing from and mashing up eras to make something contemporary.
How do you feel about labels in the world of art? Do you feel that they are conducive or restrictive to artists? More so now than ever, art has become so subjective.
I feel the artists should never be concerned with how someone outside of themselves labels the work. I can try to give a piece of traditional labels like this painting, but what if it feels more like a sculpture? What if the statue feels more like a performance? The designation of what I was doing was important to me when I was earlier in my career, and now I realize for me it’s a cage. What is essential is that the work I make is authentic and honest to me and the moment I create it.
Party Can't Done, 2020
mixed media diorama in reclaimed jewelry box 3 1/2 x 3 1/8 x 3 1/8 in
What are your thoughts on the importance of an artist statement? Do you think it adds or detracts value from a piece of art, and why? Is it a marketing tool or a necessary part of a piece’s identity?
The artist statement can function in so many ways. It can alienate or include the reader. Sometimes it could be a way for an artist to work through what they’ve made after they’ve just had the experience of making, and perhaps for them, only through talking it through and forming a statement, they can come to a place of completion within themselves. Some works I make me require no statement while other pieces demand i
We both know that art and the art business, just like music and the music business have very little to do with one another. How do you reconcile being a limitless creative source with having to also be commercially successful in order to make a living? What has your journey between these two worlds been like?
I often give thanks to the universe, and I’m filled with gratitude for delivering the idea to me to create these little works. When I started making visual art, commercial success wasn’t a focus, and I had no idea about the commercial world. I wasn’t coming from a prestigious art school that pushes the idea of joining the art market. I just started making these little dioramas out of love, and at first, they were not appreciated by the contemporary art world at all. Then slowly, they made their way into museum exhibitions. That set a tone for my path. So I’ve never had to change what I was doing to make money in the visual art world. It took a long time to start making money, but then it happened on my terms, so I’ve never had to bend or change any of my creative ideas, and once I proved that the dioramas were important could be a thing, the art world became very open to what other ideas could I come up with and whether it be my unorthodox style of painting or my performances it has been embraced.
A moment of reflection and self care, 2018 mixed media diorama in reclaimed jewelry box 3 x 2 3/4 x 3 1/2 inches
The Apprentice, the fish the cat the crow, and the oranges, 2018 mixed media diorama in reclaimed jewelry box
I remember being struck by your tableaus of protest scenes and your representations of the black experience in your art. There is a depth and authenticity to your art for me personally and I’m sure for many others, that leaves a lasting emotional impact. In simple words, I have observed your journey as an artist from the sidelines and it’s been inspiring and thought provoking. Do you ever set out to make a specific statement or do your ideas channel through you organically, or perhaps both?
Thank you for saying that. Those images of protest and representation came before institutional interest in the collectors' interest. Hence, they came out of a longing to express the anger and the pain I was feeling about how we treat each other here on Earth. But once those specific themes became of interest to collectors, i.e. investment collectors, wealthy folks don’t care about this suffering. It sucked the integrity out of making more pieces about black bodies and people of colour suffering it didn’t feel right to offer works like that to the market. I still will do work around pain and loss and injustice. But that art only available to be viewed in specific settings.
How has the pandemic affected you as an artist and what ways have you discovered to cope with the changes this past year has brought?
I discovered getting lost in the making just for the sake of making my schedule is brave. Been very intense where it’s a back-to-back exhibition so often you’re making ideas probably developing projects to be immediately shown or shown in the future, and that affects the way of the studio flow when things slow down dramatically and show got cancelled or postponed indefinitely it allowed me to get back to when I initially would just sit and draw for the sake of drawing and explore for the sake of exploring my mind that has been an incredible gift again
You are the quintessential Fearless Nomad. Can you share a story from your various travels and experiences of making art abroad that has had a profound affect on you or was notable in some way?
A fearless nomad! It gets easier the more you do it. My mom has always called me a troubadour. Having a family of my own, we are finding ways to be troubadours as a unit. I’m looking forward to traveling with them and showing my boy the world. One of my favorite stories to tell is from my time in Portugal. My studio was located in a very working-class local neighborhood on a tight residential street. Everyday would traipse down the hill looking at the river with my coffee. In Portugal you nod and acknowledge your neighbors and so they were acknowledged but few would nod back. They were hesitant of course for reasons I understand it’s a language barrier I don’t speak much Portuguese and the folks had watched as gentrification quickly ate away other neighborhoods. One sunny day I was in my studio and got hit with the lonely blues missing family being away from them for so long had taken its toll. Frankly I needed a hug and not but not by a lover, or friend. I needed hug that only a sibling or mother or father can give. I’m outside of my studio shaking a can of spray paint and this old man down the street is waving me over so I go over to him and he loops his arm through my arm and he just starts walking with me down the street in the opposite direction. I’m laughing because I’m like where is this guy taking me and I’m speaking in English he’s speaking in Portuguese. We get to his building entrance and at the bottom of the stairs there is his wife in a wheelchair and he needs help to lift her up the final three stairs and out onto the street. I get the feeling he had lifted her out many times by himself but today he can’t do it and you could see. It had really emotionally impacted him and that he had been trying for a while. I helped him pull her out and he started crying and he put his arms around me and he just hugged me hugged me like a grandfather or my father would. The next day I arrive at my studio to find a bag of bread on my studio door the day after that another neighbor comes across and brings me coffee. The man had spread word that I was helpful I was a person of the community and there was literally a community social club next to my studio and they invited me to be an honorary member of the community center in exchange for a drawing. I sat my studio and I just cried tears of joy. To see me as a part of the community really helped shake some of the prejudices I had from having to protect myself while living in America.
You have recently become a father. How (if it has), has this affected the way you experience the world around you now?
I see the world through a softer filter as i look at everyone and realize we were all as vulnerable and in need of care like he is at this stage of his life. Many new parents have echoed this sentiment and I’m finding many cliches about parenting and the love for your child just to be true.
As an artist, where in the world do you feel most comfortable and the most creative? Is there a particular city, or a country that brings out the most in you? And what would you attribute it to?
As much as I like to feel inspired no matter where I am located. Portugal’s light brought out an energy in my painting that felt endless.
What projects are you working on right now? What can we look forward to from you in the next little while?
I rediscovered getting lost in the process. Art just for the sake of making. My schedule is has been very intense it’s a back-to-back exhibition. Developing projects to be immediately shown and that affects the way of the studio flow when things slowed down dramatically and shows got canceled or postponed indefinitely it allowed me to get back to when I originally would just sit and draw for the sake of drawing and explore for the sake of exploring my mind that has been a wonderful gift again
‘TFN Talks’ In Partnership with Tropical Nomad Coworking Space