TFN Talks with Mathilda Dwi Lestari
Keeping up with our favorite tradition of featuring powerful and visionary women, we caught up with Mathilda Dwi Lestari, an Indonesian mountaineer, who along with her climbing partner Fransiska Dimitri Inkiriwang became the first Indonesian all-female team to climb the World’s Seven Summits: Everest, Aconcagua, Denali, Kilimanjaro, Elbrus, Mount Vinson and Carstensz Pyramid.
What inspired you to become a mountaineer? Did you ever think that one day you would climb the world’s 7 tallest mountains?
Well, to be honest, I really had no idea at all that I would climb the Seven Summits. Because since I was a kid, my family is not that kind of family who likes to go for some outdoors stuff, we’re pretty much a conservative family, we don’t go out to nature that much. At least, my Dad, he grew up in a plantation and a farm because one of my grandparents was working there. But still, nothing like climbing mountains. But there is always this feeling, maybe it’s kind of a longing that I always had the passion to travel the world, I always wanted to explore new places. I want to see what’s out there. When we had some vacations, out of town, you could see some mountains around and the trees are so dense. And at that time I was really curious about how people go in there? Is there even any routes in between those dense trees? How it feels like being “trapped” in the clouds. You know sometimes you see the clouds covering the mountains, right? Anyway, fast forward to the time when I needed to enroll for University, there was one of these famous talk shows in Indonesia and their guests were the first Seven Summiteers from Indonesia. They are male students and coming from Mahitala - a mountaineering organization at Parahyangan Catholic University. And I was so amazed by them and I felt deep down in my heart that I should get into that Uni and join Mahitala. Thank God, thanks to the universe, I got into that Uni only based on my scores in high school! And I was like, man, this is a sign that I should be joining the organization you know. All that I could think about is that these guys would be that kind of people who always put their hands up for adventure, besides that this time I would learn how to climb a mountain for real, which is a bonus. So I’m like okay, let’s do this thing. It basically comes from that side of me who always wants to explore new places and be out there in nature, see some beautiful views and experience things.
Mathilda, you were part of the first Indonesian women team to scale the Seven Summits: Everest, Aconcagua, Denali, Kilimanjaro, Elbrus, Mount Vinson and Carstensz Pyramid. That is an absolutely enormous undertaking. Can you tell us about how the team came together, what is the significance of having an all-female team of mountaineers climb for Indonesia?
What I have mentioned before is that we already had the first male team to be the Seven Summiteers, the idea of having the female team this time came up from Mahitala as well. One of the considerations was that we wanted to give another gift to Indonesia. Looking at the mountaineering side, it’s something that is not popular here in general, especially if women are doing it. There weren’t that many women who would jump into this field. Then one of the summits - Carstensz Pyramid is in Papua, in Indonesia as well, why not pursue this idea? Then in 2014, the organization made an announcement that they would have an open recruitment for our members (women are being prioritized) to join in an expedition that has a mission of changing the ropes on the climbing routes of Carstensz Pyramid in Papua. Later, it became one of the indicators if we could move forward to the other six mountains. Then, there were 10 women who signed up. We had to go through an interview and physical test. After that, there were 4 women (Me, Deedee, Fika, and Caro) who got chosen for the mission along with 6 male members. Then we went to Carstensz Pyramid, and we succeeded! Changing the rope and summited. Moving along, after we got back from the climb, we started to recruit more people because then we decided to move forward with the other six mountains. Along the way, on our second mountain, Elbrus (Russia) it was the three of us who continued because for a personal reason, one of the girls decided to not continue. Then in our fourth mountain, Aconcagua (South America), Caro got very severe altitude sickness that had her hospitalized in Buenos Aires. Going forth, from our fifth mountain, Vinson Massif in Antarctica, it was Deedee and me until we finished all the seven. Having an all female team is something that is really really amazing and cool! Let me tell you why. First, going back to those stereotypes in Indonesia - that students who are joining a mountaineering organization or something similar to that are usually the ones who take longer to finish their studies, their appearance is not tidy. That we only go to campus for hanging out at the organization’s place, and all that stuff. Second, you know, it’s just a hobby. Even we know that there are some other people who would think that mountaineering or doing other outdoor activities are such cool activities and would appreciate it much. But the majority aren’t. It’s just not popular. Third, being a woman in a third-world country and the culture we are brought up in. At some point, with this expedition, we also want to deliver the message that women can do anything we want. We actually have everything to make our dreams come true. To make something impossible be possible. I think It’s not just because of this expedition, but as women empowerment issues are rising, along with environmental issues and a little bit of lifestyle (sad of saying this but it’s true) right now there are more women who are climbing and hiking and really getting good at it.
Can you tell us about what kind of training went into climbing Mount Everest in particular? How long did you train for?
Basically, since the day we started training for Carstensz Pyramid, we didn’t stop training until it was the time when we had to go for Everest. It took us 4 years to get ready for it. The training in general would take 6 days a week. In those 6 days we did a combination between hiking on the weekends, running, carrying weights up and down the stairs, yoga and swimming. Each of the exercises had targets, either catching faster time, lifting heavier weights, or a combination of both. Inbetween those regular exercises, we took a Vo2Max test to know our performance (even if it’s not one of the indicators that will make you succeed or not), trail running, climbing, and bouldering. Also, we did the Wimhof method briefly. And especially for Denali (because we needed to pull our own sled and really heavy loads), we were pulling a big car tire with 24kgs in our backpack for 3 days in a row, each day escalating from 6,8 to 10 hours. But in reality, the hours were more than that. Especially the last day. And the road was up and down hill. It was hell. I couldn’t even feel my body after that three days tho. Haha. Besides that, we also had consultations with the male team and other senior members in the organization or in the community as well as with our guides. We read books, googled deeper, visualized everything about the climb. We had catering for our meals (basically for us not to skip or be late in having the meal), then a medical check-up once or twice. On the other side of the team, our support team, they were hustling with publication through radio, television, magazines, etc. Creating content for our social media, and the most important thing is raising and finding the funds for us to climb. While we were doing all that, we were still studying and taking university classes. Thank you to everyone who was part of this mission, through all of these ups and downs, you were amazing, we were amazing!
What were your most memorable moments of doing the Everest climb? Did you experience fear and how did you deal with it? Did the team help each other morally?
The most memorable moment of doing the Everest climb was when 4 of our support team members plus my ex-boyfriend came all the way to Everest Basecamp! The climbing duration of Everest is the longest among 6 other mountains. It took us 34 days from basecamp to the summit then back to basecamp again. Before we reached the basecamp, it had already been a month since we left Indonesia. During that time, it was literally just Deedee and I. Our team was Japanese, including our guides (but they were such amazing guides!), so it was just us against the world. I mean, we were still talking with the rest of the team, but you know, when you - foreigners living in Bali and you got into a situation where it was just you and the rest are Indonesian. You know how that feels? That’s exactly what we felt during the whole climb. But that’s not a big deal. They were nice and we were supporting and caring for each other. The thing is that the presence of our support team and for me, especially my ex partner was such a blessing. To see some familiar faces and you could feel all of the love and the spirit was coming back, even higher this time. They even gave us a little surprise. They showed up a day faster than what we planned! They gave us some other stuff that made us even happier, like food, books, and even some skin care products haha. Well, we still got to take care of our skin up there for our well-being. Every climb was taking a lot of stakes for our mental and physical health, especially the last two mountains, Denali and Everest. So, things like this were really important and the effect to our well being is intangible, but it motivated us a lot. While fear is always something that me and Deedee faced everyday. We talked about it, motivated each other that it’s just another day. We’re gonna wake up today, climb a little, then at the end of the day, we’re gonna go back crawling in our warm sleeping bags. We were thinking of taking it slow, little steps, just thinking about that day only. Cause after I thought about it, yes, we do need plans and for example know how the weather is going to be tomorrow, but then, the most certain thing out there is uncertainty, so let’s just worry about today, tomorrow can wait.
How long was the Mount Everest climb and what was it like when you reached this world’s famous peak as an Indonesian all women team? What did you do once you reached the summit, and how long did you spend at the top?
The climb was amazing! Starting from Camp 3, we got our own Sherpas. Mine was Pasang and Deedee’s was Pemba. They were still so young! Like 26- 28 years old! And that was their fifth or sixth climb to Everest! Pasang woke us up in our tent at 9 PM and brought hot water for us to eat. Our foods since we left the second main basecamp, were all instant. We just put hot water in it, voila, we had some rice and soup! Then we were getting ready, we got dressed and at 11:30 PM sharp, Pasang and Pemba came to our tent, made sure that we were all set and off we went! From our tent, it was still dark and I could see the lights from the headlamps of the climbers making a line at the ridge of the mountain. And I was like, okay, it’s just another summit day. Repeating that over and over again just to feel safe and that also means that it’s almost the last step to come back home, to see my ex back in Nepal (after the basecamp trip, yes, he was waiting for us in Nepal!). Sorry but not sorry, every motivation was valid, right? Haha. In case I haven’t mentioned, we took the north side, through Tibet, not from the south side which is from Nepal. It was about 60 people that day who went up to the summit with us, compared to the Nepal side that could be hundreds in a day. We started the climb, slowly, not really slow, because Pasang was so fast, at some quite safe point, he would drag me with him to pass other climbers and I was like, okay, I put all of my trust in you, my life basically. We went to the first steps, the second step was the hardest because the stainless steel stairs, it was pinned to the rock, but trust me, it wasn’t stable at all and it was literally attached to a rock and behind you was nothing. One mistake, I could die up there. That was at around 8.500 meters above sea level. We continued the climb, through the third step, after that it was a ridge and a narrow path, and didn’t even have a space for two feet. I was questioning myself, what the hell am I doing here and that was when the sun started to rise and you see the yellow light on the horizon, and I stopped for a bit to enjoy it. It was cold at that time, but somehow I felt so warm in my heart and yes, this is what I’m looking for. This is why I’m doing this, this is the reason for all the things that make me want to do this thing for more. I felt so little, you realized that the universe is so big and beautiful and wow, we’re nothing here. Until we reached the top, I saw other climbers from the other side, our sherpas hd us sitting in a very small place. The top wasn’t really big, we were lucky that we still had some space up there. I was really grateful for being there, it was a 360 degree view of everything. All around was all mountains and it was beautiful with sun rising up higher and higher. But, there wasn’t much time to embrace everything, we then put our oxygen mask off then took pictures and a little video, for the documentation then, we needed to go back down.
We stayed at the summit for around 15 minutes and hell, the thought of going back to the same route, going through all those steps again, I was freaking out. So instead of being amazed, I was taking some time to get my focus on again, and yes, let’s come back down! All the way to Camp 3, until we got to the main basecamp, stayed for a night or two (I couldn’t remember), then back to the main basecamp. Only then we could absorb everything that just happened. Looked back at the summit, sitting outside our dining tent on a bright sunny day, we both we’re like, DUDE! WE DID IT! We were up there! Let’s give a tap on our shoulders, we deserved it! While sipping the beers in our hands.
Can you talk about what it was like to climb the other six peaks. Can you list all the mountains in the order in which they were summited and when?
Our climbs were:
1. Carstensz Pyramid 4884 masl - Papua, Indonesia for Australasia - 13th August 2014
2. Elbrus 5642 masl - Russia for Europe - 15th May 2015
3. Kilimanjaro 5895 masl - Tanzania for Africa - 24th May 2015
4. Aconcagua 6962 masl - Argentina for South America - 30th January 2016
5. Vinson Massif 4892 masl - Antarctica - 5th January 2017
6. Denali 6190 masl - Alaska for North America - 1st July 2017
7. Everest 8848 masl - Tibet - 17th May 2018
The other six peaks were so remarkable. Each of the six taught us many lessons and somehow they also boosted our confidence to go for the next ones. We met a lot of people along the way, amazing, crazy people.They are really good at what they’re doing and love the mountains as well. It was sooooo good to be surrounded by people who share the same passion, you know. And they always surprise you ‘cause each of them has their own stories. There was one time, in Denali, we actually met a priest from Poland and we did the holy mass up there! This is actually what I love being out there, besides whatever nature will give you, you could never expect who you will meet and under what circumstances, then the most important thing is that they always give you something to learn, they add some richness to your life.
Some people say that mountains have spirits. It may sound odd to many people, but I have grown up in a city surrounded by mountains and I’ve felt it on many hikes and climbs. There is a power felt that is very tangible when you are in the presence of a mountain. Do you believe this? Have you had any profound spiritual experiences on your expeditions and can you tell us about them?
I am not that spiritual or religious kind of person but I do believe that everything in the universe has souls, energy, spirit, those things that you can’t see but you can feel it. And for me, being connected to the mountains and the surroundings is the most important thing before I start to climb. So, every time I’m climbing a mountain, or doing other outdoor activities, wherever it is, I would touch its ground, closing my eyes, trying to connect with the surroundings and pray for the mountain to keep us safe and that we just want to enjoy it, to be grateful for what Mother Earth has provide us. Sometimes along the way, I’d like to touch the plants, the water, or you know stuff around you and simply just say thank you. So far, everything went out well. We met some obstacles for sure, but we always came back alive, that’s what matters.
You are passionate about empowering women. Do you consider yourself a feminist, and what does that term mean to you?
Being a woman is a wonderful thing. And when women come together, supporting each other, we could be so powerful and could fill the world with love, so much love. I wouldn’t call myself or even consider myself as a feminist. It’s a really heavy term and I guess everyone has their own understanding of it. In my personal opinion, it’s more about how we could see things fairly, from both sides both women and men. And sometimes I’m thinking that women are already empowered. Even I know that there are still many women who are still limited, but if we could see beyond that, men also needed some guidance or I don’t know how to say it. But you know, changes can’t just be from one side. So when women are screaming about feminism or empowerment, while the men don’t know anything about it, it would be useless. And that nowadays, men also need help, that creatures who have been told to suppress emotions, to be strong and tough, and all that, they get stressed too, it could be worse and we don’t really pay attention to that. Anyway, my point is that, right now we are in an era where everybody can get any opportunities to do and decide what is best for them. But then, never ever forget to support each other, to have tolerance, to compromise just a little bit more and realize that we are all human, we are equal.
As a woman in Indonesia, as an extreme athlete, what have been the biggest challenges that you have had to overcome?
In general, as an Indonesian woman, sometimes I feel emancipated, other times I feel so limited. With all those rules, norms, and one of the most dangerous things in society – stereotypes. But actually one of the biggest challenges is to be able to show emotions and to talk out loud. There was a time when we had a misunderstanding with each other, between our manager (he was such a great man after all, and a great manager who always cared for us deep down in his heart) and with our support team as well. It was a lot in that period of time and me and Deedee, we felt that sometimes it wasn’t our place to state our minds, or how we feel because we didn’t want to let everyone down. But then, it wasn’t healthy for us. On the other side, they have expectations on us in which they always want us to be safe and ready to climb. Then finally, it was like something that you always buried and like a bomb, we had a fight, not like physically, but you know, the vibes were different. We couldn’t keep that going for much longer, until we had a meditation that needed the other parties to clear things out. Though right now, I’m still learning to be able to say what I want and that every voice matters. Actually, not only from our side, but also from others and as long as we have a clear communication, we’re hopefully gonna be just fine.
What advice would you give young women who have dreams of becoming international mountaineers at your level?
Always looking forward to something bigger than you, dream big, explore yourself, explore about what you want, what you need. At the same time, take it easy on yourself. Go at your own pace, every progress, whatever small or big it is, you gotta tap yourself on your shoulders that you are progressing. That you are doing good. Be open to any opportunities and chances. Back to how the universe works, sometimes you don’t see it, the choices you made now may not be right, and things could go wrong but it will always bring you closer to the things you want and give lessons to become a better you. I have these women that I look up to, one is Carrie Bradshaw – a fictional character from Sex and The City. Then a badass Ski Mountaineer from Utah – Caroline Gleich, and the last one coming from my all - time favourite Band, Paramore, Hayley Williams. The similarities from the three of them is that they know what they want, they are working hard on it, they embrace every good and bad times, every failure and get back up again. I am losing it sometimes you know, saying all this doesn’t mean that I am always on a track. But it’s life, you can never always be on the top and you lose sometimes but keep it going. I am still in the process of figuring this life when maybe there’s nothing to figure out. And never ever forget people who are around you. Shout out to my friends and every one whose path I have crossed, cause without my friends, I couldn’t learn any of these stuff as well.
What does mountaineering mean to you and what are your future goals in the sport? Would you consider writing a book about your experiences?
Well, being in the outdoors, being close to nature in general is something that can’t be separated from me. If I don’t have it, I can’t function well. Somehow, it is affecting choices I make in life. It really shows when every time I choose a place to stay, my place should have a big window with some view and with an open space. Cause I love to breathe the fresh air in the morning and get the natural light. It is also one of the ways to get my sanity when I couldn’t go out. You know, just sitting there in the morning, looking at the rice field through the window with an orange light starting to become brighter as the sun rises up and the wind blows your hair. Isn’t that something to look forward to? This is also why I choose Bali. Besides the chill vibes present everywhere sometimes too much and stressing me out haha, being able to go to the beach whenever I want to is a privilege. Mountaineering is a part of being outdoors that I love to do the most among other things. So, yea, as I mentioned before, mountaineering can’t be separated from me as well. I promise to myself that I will not stop climbing until my mind and body are not capable of doing it anymore. I just want to be able to explore more things out there, enjoy my time out there as much as I possibly can. There is always this part of me that will longing for new adventures, like having a long trek in Nepal, finishing Pacific Crest Trail, even back to Denali to (hopefully) ski it! Haha. And I would love to share this experience I have through a book! Yes, me and my climbing partner are writing a book about our Seven Summits journey. It will be something honest from our heart, things that don’t come up to the surface. The struggles, the feelings that have never been shown, people in the backstage, and those little things that matters for us to keep going. I’m so excited about it! Because not many people know all this behind the scenes stuff, that actually, it was a constant battle of mind and body every single day.
What are your passions outside of climbing and how do you spend your days here in Bali?
Travel is one thing that has been my passion since I was a teenager and I think mountaineering is coming out from that. I kind of like to write, but it’s still something that I need to work on more, but I was having a little dream of being a writer, then it actually started to happen. How the universe works in such a unique way and you don’t even realize it. Like totally, I just got it when I wrote this interview! Thank you Deniz! And I like to dance as well! Right now, I am working remotely in Bali so if you guys have any plan on doing some hikes or dancing haha, please hit me up!
Fransiska Dimitri Inkiriwang and Mathilda Dwi Lestari. The first Indonesian all-female team to climb the world’s Seven Summits.
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