TFN Talks with Chris Fisher
We sat down with film director, writer and producer Chris Fisher to talk about his extraordinary life and career as a filmmaker in Hollywood. Fisher’s most notable projects include directing The Magicians, Person of Interest, and Warehouse 13. He has recently directed a two-episode block of The Stand , an upcoming American dark fantasy streaming television miniseries based on the 1978 novel by Stephen King.
Chris , where did you grow up and how has your early life shaped or influenced your artistic choices as a film and television director?
I was born in Pasadena, California, which is now a leafy suburban enclave of Los Angeles, albeit with its own architectural influences, not least of which the inspirational work of Greene and Greene. Pasadena is mostly known for the Rose Parade and Jet Propulsion Laboratory, but before colonization, the Hahamog’na people of the Tongva tribe lived there for thousands of years. They believed the lush, beautiful Arroyo Seco (a large canyon) - where my childhood home sat - was sacred land. I believe them. Not not ironically, my early childhood was spent playing on this same sacred land, exploring the cliffs, streams, and caves of the Arroyo. When I was 6 years old, and in 1st grade, my family moved to Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia. I was reborn. I lost myself at this very young and pivotal age in a culture that was unfamiliar to me. In this wandering, especially as a child, I learned to fall in love with differences. And of course, learning to fall in love with differences helped me realize that we are not different at all. We are all one. Everything is connected. I discovered this truth at the age of 7. After some years in Saudi Arabia, and after long stops along the way in Thailand, Venezuela, England, etc. (my Dad worked for an oil company), we finally moved back to California just before I was a teenager. My proverbial spaceship, which was flying so high in Saudi Arabia, made a sudden, unexpected crash-landing in Newport Beach. Or, as I remember it, my own personal cultural wasteland. I was afflicted with acute ‘reverse culture shock’. After riding camels through the Arabian desert, hearing the bells from the local mosque ring daily, smelling fresh lamb cooked from an open spit on the weekends, picking and eating fresh dates picked off wild trees, taking catamarans through the Persian gulf, going to school with children from all over the world, etc. I was thoroughly unprepared for this level of beige. A complete lack of stimulus. I missed my ‘home’ and was thirsty for adventure, excitement, and wonder. I started searching everywhere for connections to the world I left behind, longing for anything to help transport me away from the mundane. In my search for a portal to another world, I flirted with Dungeons and Dragons, comics, surfing, but ultimately found my way back through cinema.
Where did the dream of working in film originate for you and what are your earliest memories of taking steps to meet your calling?
When I was 13 years old, I lied and said I was 16 (the minimum age at the time) and got a job as an usher at Edwards Theatres. I was hired at Edwards premium ‘Big Newport” theatre in Fashion Island, a fancy outdoor shopping mall, which had the largest screen in Orange County at the time. By 12 years old, cinema had become my one and only 'E-ticket' for escapism, but movies were expensive, especially for a kid with a paper route. So lying about my age was the only way to get hooked up to an IV of films. I was either going to get a job at movie theatre, and immerse myself in fantasy, or the doldrums of suburban Americana was going to eat me alive. To this day, that job as an usher is the best job I’ve ever had. It changed my life. Not only because that old paper route was for a rightwing local paper called the Daily Pilot, which took me and my BMX bike up a steep hill to million dollar homes where nobody would pay me. Homeowners would pretend not to be home whenever I tried to collect, even though I could see them peering out the blinds (yes, think of the paper boy in BETTER OFF DEAD... ‘I want my two dollars'). But most of all, being an usher was the best job because on an average after-school night, per screening, I spent: 10 minutes cleaning up the theatre, 10 minutes tearing tickets at the box office, and 70 to 90 minutes watching - and studying - movies! We also had to work the concession stand, but among the 4 to 10 ushers (depending on the movie(s) and whether it was a weekend or weekday) we would take turns on the register while the movie was playing. We’d all huddle in the back of the theatre, stuffing our faces with extra butter and extra salt popcorn, watching the same movies over and over and over. The perks were many, not only free popcorn, but all the hot dogs and soda pop we could inhale. Occasionally, I’d pocket a Good and Plenty but box candy was not free (sorry, Mr. Edward). But the real perk was I got my imagination turned on. My dreamscape ignited. My passion for storytelling forever lit. It was heaven. I remember watching MAD MAX BEYOND THUNDERDOME at least 100 times one summer. I knew every word, every song, and Tina Turner is still to this today, a permanent femme fatale in my dreamscape. Although Big Newport only played blockbusters, the Edwards chain also had a handful of arthouse theatres nearby (Laguna Main Beach, Town Center, and University). Over the years I climbed the ranks of usher, even got to meet Mr. Edwards one day in his private office (where I summarily failed to tell him how many box candies I stole). As a star usher, I could leapfrog around all the arthouse theatres, depending on the movies I wanted to watch. I remember taking the bus to Laguna Main Beach for my first night at that theatre where KISS OF THE SPIDER WOMAN played. It was a weekend night, and packed theatre, so I didn’t get to watch the first showing like I usually did. When the lights went on in the theatre after the credits ended, I expected the theatre to be empty like always when I came into clean, but the seats were still packed. Nobody had left. Couples, mostly gay men, crying and embracing each other, not ready to let go of the collective moment this movie had imprinted upon them. And my life once again completely changed by cinema. Dressed in my red vest, bowtie, and hat, holding my little broom and dustpan, I quietly, and reverently, swept up old popcorn pieces, cup lids, and napkins with tears. While I cleaned, I studied, learned, and had my mind opened by this audience. Ostensibly cleaning, but surreptitiously learning. Watching these humans, brought together by a movie, inspired and motivated by this work of art, to share a collective experience that pushed humanity forward. And once again falling in love with differences. The theatre closed after midnight on the weekends. And the bus home didn’t run late that, so my Dad had to drive 30 minutes to come and pick me up from work. I was 15 years old. The harvest moon sat low over the vast ocean on that November night. The Santa Ana winds blew warm offshore breezes against the waves that crashed on the shore directly across from the movie theatre. I could hear the sound of the waves breaking on the shore like a thundering chorus from my subconscious. The rest of the sleepy town dead asleep. I had never felt more alive. I waited for my Dad to arrive, snacking on red vines, backlit by the marquee lights that were left on, as I stood on the sidewalk in my ridiculous outfit. My mind was spinning. I got into his car, and we took off, winding around the ocean cliffs of Pacific Coast Highway. He noticed that I was very quiet. He asked me what was wrong, and I said nothing. “I know what I want to be when I grow up, Dad” I said, nervously, half-knowing it was impossible, half-not caring, “I want to be a filmmaker”.
In your early twenties you chose to go into law. What was the story behind this and how does a corporate lawyer become a Hollywood film director?
I was a senior at the University of Southern California (USC) when the police officers who assaulted and brutally attacked Rodney King were found 'not guilty'. I was living in South Central, Los Angeles at the time, in my dorm room, and the city caught fire, in every way possible. Civil unrest exploded. The ‘LA Riots’, as they are incorrectly known, surrounded me, both physically and thematically. I watched the city of LA burn from my place of privilege, both internally and externally, on top of a rooftop at USC. This was a visceral experience. My world view was rocked. And it motivated me. As much as I loved cinema, I wanted to change the world more directly. Right now. So, instead of going out into the ‘biz’ after graduation, and trying to find a job as a production assistant, I applied to law school. And law school ended up being three of the best years of my life. I studied what the law OUGHT to be. Normatively, how can we make the world a better place. I loved law school. So, I tried being a lawyer. But I hated being a lawyer. I was a corporate lawyer in London for all of about 3 weeks when I got a phonecall on my work phone from a couple old surfer friends I grew up with who had tracked me down and were planning on coming to London and wanted a place to crash. I asked them what they were doing and they said they were in Biarritz, with a couple hundred hits of ecstacy. I asked them if they had an extra board bag for me to sleep in and maybe a extra board to borrow. Minutes later, I walked out of my law office, leaving my law career behind, grabbed a skateboard and backpack from my flat in London and hopped on a plane for Biarritz. I remember jumping in the back of a Ford Fiesta, filled with boards and wetsuits, dropping a pill in my mouth at the same time one of those famous summer lighting storms whipped up in the skies above Basque country. We were racing down backroads from San Sebastian to Hosegor, tripping balls, laughing out loud and feeling like I had been electrocuted myself. I was once again on my way back on the path to cinema. Although it would be a much wilder and circuitous road than I ever could have dreamed.
Do you prefer producing or directing films or both, and why?
I prefer writing them! Ha! Sorry for the trick answer. And I’m sure writing is my preference right now because there's a little bit of the ‘grass is greener’ happening. While my career as a director and producer has done okay, my writing career has languished a bit. But I don’t buy into the Hollywood bifurcation of writing and directing, or directing and producing. It’s all cinema. And as a filmmaker I love it all. And want to do it all. I just haven’t had a paid writing gig for many years, although I do have many pilots and projects I am going out with that are ‘on spec’. Why is that? I have to admit the possibility that it’s become I’m not that great of a writer, but my ego hasn’t allowed me to believe this, at least not yet. Or, perhaps, I just love the process so much of writing that it doesn’t matter how much external success I have. The internal rewards are so great. The journey is the destination. Also, I think it’s easier for agents and executives to push one career, often as the expense of another, so they can streamline their business. So, you have to remain vigilant and make sure that even though your team might be focusing on what makes you (and them) money, you have to always to keep the craft you aren’t being paid to do alive and fresh. I try to write a little bit everyday, on some project, to keep the writer juices flowing.
Do you prefer to work on features or television series? What are some pros and cons when it comes to both formats for you?
I prefer to work with people who I connect with. The medium isn’t that important. And yes, this is a simplistic answer, because there are really some HUGE differences between film and tv. Maybe even more differences than similarities, but ultimately MY preference is to enjoy the collaborative process. And I do that when I am with people who share my love for the process, and perhaps, some of my values for life. Notably, some of the shared values I seek out, are a love and respect for differences, and expanding the collective consciousness. I have done that before on both films and on tv. And I have NOT done that before on both films and tv. So, I would say the common denominator is the people I am working with and not the medium itself. Also, whether the movie is any ‘good’ or not is never separate from the experience. At least for me. I truly believe the experience has to be positive. I am not one of those filmkakers who would be satisfied with a great movie/show that was born out of a horrible experience. You hear that all the time, things like ‘oh, the shoot was such a shit show, but the movie was great, so voila’… sorry, this dude does not abide. Maybe that’s where my 'producer hat' comes in… I endeavor to build and create a happy circus. I demand that every day of every project I make, is a positive, rewarding, uplifting, inspiring, and fair experience, for every single person on that crew. Yes, it’s hard, with long hours, and often very challenging, but not only is that not an excuse for making it unrewarding, it’s an impetus for making it rewarding. We ask the cast and crew to give up so much for us, and our vision, so the least we can do is embrace, reward, and share with them a positive experience that brings us all together.
As far as pros and cons, hmmm, I’ll have to WAY OVER simplify, but: FILM PRO: authorship; FILM CON: business side is shady; TV PRO: collaboration and business side is run well; TV CON: authorship is more difficult/complex.
You directed quite a few projects which have a large fan following like Warehouse 13, The Magicians and S. Darko . In the case of S. Darko , what was it like to direct a sequel to the cult classic Donnie Darko? Is there a certain amount of pressure that builds up for a director over time on shows like Warehouse 13 as the popularity of a show grows?
S. DARKO was a mistake. Mostly because it was so rushed. We had to lock the script before a writers strike, and it simply wasn’t ready. The script and story were never fully formed, but if we didn’t make it right away, we were going to lose the chance. I should have walked, but hindsight is 20/20. That said, I did enjoy directing it, and it was one of my most beautiful films, lensed by the incredible Marvin Rush (who shot over two hundred episodes of STAR TREK, and this was his first feature film) and with an incredible score by Ed Harcourt that we made a lot of together in his NottingHill flat. But also not one of my best. I learned a lot from that experience. I’m grateful to have made that movie and had my career survive to continue making more. It was one of my greatest and most important failures. Insofar as the pressure from popular shows I’ve been involved with, they were all very different than S. Darko insofar as I was involved as a producer/director, and as a collaborator early on… WAREHOUSE 13, PERSON OF INTEREST, and THE MAGICIANS were all 5-year long series that I was a part of setting the look and feel of the shows. And as all three shows grew in popularity, the pressure would not increase, but the enjoyment factor certainly did! Maybe because there was no precedent, no expectations to live up to, such as making a sequel to a beloved cult classic, instead, we were building something new. Although I wasn’t a writer, nor part of the incubation phase, I was part of creating the visual language, the tone, feel, soundtrack, and performances of all three series. Looking back on the past 14 years of my career, which has been defined by these 3 long running fantasy/science fiction series, I’m beyond grateful to have been part of the amazing team of showrunners, writers, directors, cast and crew as a true ‘family member’. Being a producer/director on one hit television series takes a lot of luck. Being a part of three hit shows in a row… that takes a miracle.
On the heels of this question, many viewers don’t realize this, but television series are often separated into blocks and directed by multiple directors. Each director has his or her unique style, how do you reconcile this with the need to keep the show consistent and adhere to the wishes and wants of the producers and the network?
A TV show maintains a look through communication, trust, and following the script. Most TV shows hire a producer/director, like myself, to oversee the various ‘guest directors’, cast, crew, etc. TV directors, especially now in this new golden age of TV, include some of the most passionate filmmakers in the world, all with their own point of view and life experiences. But unlike making a film, where the director can be involved early on with the script and/or story, a TV director gets a script handed to them usually just weeks, or even days, before shooting. So, the opportunity to imprint ’their vision’ onto the script is much reduced, or at least shortened. There simply isn’t enough time for a guest director to sail the ship into another beautiful harbor. Time is the gate keeper. Or the enemy, if you ask some film directors who have a dalliance with TV and left with an unrequited love. There is, unfortunately, still enough time for a guest director to crash the ship, but that’s usually where I come in, sharing the helm with our guest director, and as a last resort taking hold of the sails, steering us towards calmer, more collaborative waters. Truth is that TV is a writers medium and unless directors start being hired as showrunners, this will never change. Even cinematic, expansive, and director-heavy shows like GAME OF THRONES are still writer driven because the directors aren't involved in the many months, even years, of script development. That said, one of the great advantages to my job - a producer/director - is that I do get to be involved early on and am able to have some input in the development of the show, season outlines, scripts, etc. How much depends on many factors, not least of which the showrunners appetite for my involvement. So, a TV director, on day one of their prep period, is usually given many completed elements, not least of which a script, a shooting schedule, and often completed visual elements like sets, costume, props, etc. that have to be finished by the time they arrive. TV directors must accept these as gifts, and focus on the part of the process they can creatively control - visual language, feel, tone, actor performance, scene blocking, shot selection, etc. In this very fundamental way, TV directing can often feel more of a craft than a true artform, but again, that would be both a generalization and an over-simplification.
What has been your favorite directing gig in the past ten years and why?
My favorite gig was my last one, THE STAND, where I directed a 2-episode block of Stephen King’s famous, terrifying, and scarily prophetic horror-thriller. I can’t say much about the project, but my two episodes were pivotal both from a world-building and character development/introduction standpoint. It was the greatest honor of my career to direct this adaptation. I can’t wait for people to see this miniseries!
What kinds of stories do you tend to gravitate towards as a director? You also write. Where does the inspiration for your stories come from?
I love horror, fantasy and science fiction. The holy trinity! Or at least my holy trinity. Mostly because I love escapism and being transported to another world. Also because it provides a ‘backdoor’ and non-didactic way to discuss real world problems from a ’safe distance’ that might otherwise be too close to home. Nobody likes being yelled at, but we all like being entertained, so if we can slip some medicine into the entertainment then... presto! I also love the craft elements of genre, playing with ‘movie magic’ and ‘make believe’ with visual effects, prosthetics, makeup, etc. Anything that my mind can imagine is possible in genre. It’s really the most fun thing to do in the world.
In December 2017 you lost your family’s dream home in Ojai, California to Thomas Fire, the largest wildfire in modern California history at the time. It was heartbreaking to see the news and see your posts showcasing the devastating damage the fires had caused. How were you able to move on from this tragic situation with such grace and hope and what have you taken away from that incident?
My family and all our pets survived, and unharmed, so we are most of all grateful. And we send our condolences to those who were not as lucky as us. It is truly sad to watch our earth burn from global warming. Ojai, where we live, and which was hit hard by the Thomas Fire, is truly one of the many paradises that is in danger of being destroyed by the impact of fossil fuels. Before the fire, we strived to make changes in the way we live, as well as supporting groups like Green Peace, that were important to us. But now we are even more focused on how to make a difference. For example, on THE MAGICIANS the past two seasons I worked with our line producer, Clara George, to turn us into a 'green show' with a 95 to 97 reduction in our carbon footprint from fossil fuels (Check out this: https://serenarenner.com/project/the-magicians-goes-green-behind-the-scenes-the-thunderbird/).
In regards to losing a home and all our belongings, well, there is a silver lining. And that is the loss has brought my family closer together. My Dad has helped us navigate the legal battles, which have been many, with powerful entities like the State of California, Lloyds of London, and a nearby dam owned by wealthy agriculture interests all trying to stop us from rebuilding. My Mom has opened up her home for us, letting us stay in her guest house and creating a room in their main home for my daughter so she has toys, etc. My sister is our landscape architect, hoping to bring the land our home is set upon back to life and celebrate the natural beauty of Ojai, while also being both drought tolerant and fire retardant. My wife has designed the home, staring a new career as an interior designer, working with the builder to make a new home that fits our lives better than the one which was lost. My daughter has learned about impermanence and the importance of letting go. At a young age she has been taught a great lesson about finding home in your heart, imagination, and amongst loved ones - instead of with places or things. A lesson I also learned when I moved to Saudi Arabia at a similar age, and I am now so lucky to share with her. Together we have painted signs such as ‘let it go’ and placed them in the burned down home to remind us that material possessions aren’t what matters. And hey, our home was built on stolen land from the Chumash people. We are uninvited guests. So there’s always that…
What is the secret to living a joyful, fulfilling life full of purpose according to Chris Fisher?
Keep traveling, keep failing, and no matter how difficult something seems, remember it’s just a mirage. Oh, and don’t ever trust the circus!
Here is a survivor type question. If you were to direct an independent feature and have a team of only 5 key crew members to carry you through (that’s including post production), which departments would you choose and why?
I think I could do it with three: a sound engineer, boom operator, and sound mixer. I have a movie in my head that is only natural light, but shaped by expertly recorded production sound AND a very surreal post soundscape. All handheld camera, lots of speed changes and filters, some simple editing, and a stampede of life fighting against the void. Sort of like the 25 minutes or so BLACK STALLION with the horse on the beach. Or that pivotal sequence in DIVING BELL AND THE BUTTERFLY. Except it’s about a person being suffocated by Covid-19. The greatest collective fear of so many of us is the fear of dying alone. And that is what is happening all around the world today. Victims stuck in isolation, without any loved ones to hold their hand, or whisper ‘I love you’ into their ear, as they are suffocated by a disease. The air literally ripped from their lungs and nothing to look at but a white hospital ceiling and the sound of their heart monitor slowing fading away. The horror of this dystopian reality we are experiencing is a wake up call. Life is so precious and we are letting our current politicians flush it down the toilet for so many. Wear a mask, keep a safe distance! Thanks for these great questions : ). Love, Fishy.
The site of the Fishers’ home in Ojai, California after the 2017 Thomas Fire.
Chris Fisher and his beautiful wife Blair Moritz
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